*WARNING* : Contains ideas that you may find offensive : *WARNING*

[confliction]

Indeed.

Seriously, like... i really do think that any dreams of equality and the removal of anything considered 'bad' in this world ...
...is a waste of time, and contradictory.

...does this not make any sense to anyone else?

The world consists of opposites...
...without an opposite, you couldn't compare something...
...without comparison you could never 'know' what it is.

Without Happiness, you'd never know Sadness...
...works both ways.

To attempt to erradicate everything that is 'negative' in this world,
would be to destroy all that is 'positive'.

Yes or no?

- - - - - - - -

Or somewhere inbetween?

- - - - - - - -

Which leads me nicely onto 'grey' things.
That's the cloudy part inbetween two quite clear, but opposing, concepts.
Such as... what is lawful what is not.
What is moral and what is not.
There are always examples that are hard to define by just two terms.

There must be a flexibility in the Law, for example,
to account for these 'grey' instances.

I believe this flexibility could be achieved by a well trained judge...
...or panel of judges...
...and the jury...
...upon 'interpretation' of the law, and the implementation of it.

The Law itself, will remain ridged, however.
None of this annoying, and time wasting, setting the law by 'precedent'.

It'll be a simple case of extrapolating whether or not the convicted has harmed another person, or brought harm to them.
Also whether they caused harm by INaction...
...which is just as imported as causing harm by action.

- - - - - - - -

Sorry Phatboy, that's all my brain can muster of 'grey' areas.

- - - - - - - -

Now for some 'religious' schpeel... seems to get peoples blood flowing ;)

Oh, first... i've been at pains for the past few days or weeks...
...can't really tell, it's all fading into one :P...
...in being able to express my thoughts, by either posting or commenting.

Mainly because of that whole 'thing' that happened between me and Beany.

Don't get me wrong, it was cool... afterwards... I learnt a lot...
...about myself...
...about Beany...
...about Caz...
...name dropping is fun :) Makes you feel a part of the action ;)...
...and about life in general.

Was very valuable.

I just didn't want to cause conflict anymore...
...but now i say... hmmm...
...hang on...
...am i to allow my freedom of speech to be reduced?

NO!

I respond.

John Stuart Mill agrees with me... well... he would of, if he didn't die so many decades ago...
...he says that an unchallenged idea or belief or opinion is not worth holding at all.

So even if i'm wrong, it can be used as an example for others to learn from.
Also, in expressing my 'wrong' ideas, the responses will teach me.

Anywho... prolonging the inevitable...

I stole this anyways... lol... but i thought it was rather profound.
It's about the existance of God...
...a concept I'm comfortable debating...

"...does God exist outside of his own Creation? And if God does exist outside of his Creation, then why did he create us? Did he create us simply so that we CHOOSE HIM? Did God create the all magnificent wonders of the Universe only to tell you that everything around you and everyone you love is second only to him? If that's the case, then why Free Will? Is that the biggest joke of them all, that we were blessed with Free Will just to fully gratify God when we finally DO choose him? IF indeed God existed outside of his Creation, then already God would be flawed, for who created HIM? And if God would punish those for not choosing him, then he IS flawed. Furthermore, if God would want you to get on your knees and outright worship him (be it by fear or by "loving encouragement") as we do today and have been for thousands of years, then indeed this God who created us just so we can stroke his heavenly ego IS TRULY FLAWED. If you, for instance, were the unconditionally loving God mentioned in the Holy Bible, would YOU want your creation to worship you? If the answer is yes, then you are flawed."

Thoughts?
Feelings?

Must of provoked one of the two :P

'provoke'... hmmm... if i was to edit this to make it sound friendlier, i'd get rid of this word.
But I'm just typin what i think, sorry if it offends you...
...but life is offensive.

- - - - - - - -

Other ideas...
...hmmm...

More 'energy level' revelations...
this time to do with emotional investment ina situation.

If you are worried about someones where-abouts, you're investing negative emotion into the situation, right?
Torturing yourself.

If they return safely though, you feel very very happy...
...all that negative emotion becomes positive, right?

What if you just didn't worry about them?
When they return you'll not feel particularly any different.
Maybe just tell yourself "I told you they'd be back".

But when they don't return at all...
...what then?

In case A... negative emotional investment...
...i reckon that due to the small change in emotion...
...i.e. 'negative' to slightly more 'negative'...
...it'll have less of an impact than if you didn't worry in the first place.
The drop in emotion in this case, will be quite vast, with feelings of guilt too.

The worst of all though, is positive emotional investment.
When they return safely, i guess you'll generally stay happy.
Hardly any change or effect on your current state.
It's when they don't return that you experience the largest drop.
From top to bottom.

Ouch.

- - - - - - - -

No real conclusion, just throwing ideas around :)

Also read up on sleep patterns and disorders, for fun.
Been looking into breastfeeding and its benefits.
Alsorts.

Got an Essay for Thursday for Philosophy of Law...
...time for my lecturer to feel my views...
...the closed minded, prejudice, and plain WRONG lecturer that she is.

If i'm marked low, i'll appeal...
...she's obviously indoctrinating the class to parrot her.

- - - - - - - -

Sorry if you took offence at anything i said,
but it's all healthy and a part of life.

Anyways... I'm cool...
...got lot's (for now) off my chest...
...still gonna carry on thinking.

Until next time,
Take Care :)

Comments

[beanybeany.livejournal.com]

Perhaps your definitions of negative and positive 'energy' (physicist part of my head having a hissy fit. It's been doing that a lot recently. Dang realtivity, you can't strech nothing, just as you can't squash it... grrr). When you worry about someone, where they are, that can be an expression of the compassion you have for them, which I can only see as a good thing. Worry for worries sake seems a bit like an addiction to me, though. And perhaps shows an unwillingness to adapt.

Hey, spotted a pattern! I analyised the selfless one as good and the selfish one as bad. Which coincides with a particular definition of Sin, while slightly flawed, is rather good. Sin = selfishness, or evil = selfishness, good = selflessness.

Which brings me onto the religious part of the entry... Feelings, tiredness. But that's because people will find what they're looking for if they want it bad enough, even if it's not there. And yes, I do see the potential for that in myself, but there have been times when I haven't wanted, hugly badly, to see what I see, and it didn't disappear. But anyways...

Just one thing, each of these questions could be chatted about for hours - and has been.

"...does God exist outside of his own Creation? And if God does exist outside of his Creation, then why did he create us?"

That is an interesting question - I don't think anyone has managed to figure it out, it occasionlly becomes the 'fashionable' question in Christianity - 'why did God bother at all'. Maybe He thought it was better that we exist than we did not, I know most people think that about themselves. *shrugs* Lot's of smarter people have become utterly confused about this for lifetimes, I don't think I'll solve it :p

"Did he create us simply so that we CHOOSE HIM? Did God create the all magnificent wonders of the Universe only to tell you that everything around you and everyone you love is second only to him?"

No - once again, don't know the why. Being definatly not God, I couldn't tell.

"If that's the case, then why Free Will? Is that the biggest joke of them all, that we were blessed with Free Will just to fully gratify God when we finally DO choose him?"

Nope, we have free will to fully gratify ourselves when we come to Him. We don't complete God, God completes us. And He loves us, so 'feels' good when we get better.

"IF indeed God existed outside of his Creation, then already God would be flawed, for who created HIM?"

JJ, if I remeber correctly you used to disagree with this sentiment yourself. God is forever. Forever is a valid concept, at least for me as a trainee-Physicist. And should be for anyone who benifits from the science (tree-hugers in Brazil and the Amish might think science is a bad thing, but mostly, they're in the minority)

"And if God would punish those for not choosing him, then he IS flawed. Furthermore, if God would want you to get on your knees and outright worship him (be it by fear or by "loving encouragement") as we do today and have been for thousands of years, then indeed this God who created us just so we can stroke his heavenly ego IS TRULY FLAWED."

We don't worship God for His benifit, we do it for ours. I'm not sure of all the reasons it's good for us, but the one that comes to mind at this moment is that it keeps things in perspective, it reminds us of how powerful and good God is, and how small we are. Which I think makes life easier, the world does not rest on your shoulders. But in seeming opposition to that, when we come to worship, we shouldn't think of ourselves, because it's not about us. Wait, that works. Okies :)

"If you, for instance, were the unconditionally loving God mentioned in the Holy Bible, would YOU want your creation to worship you? If the answer is yes, then you are flawed."

Thank God that I am not :p Perhaps I would, if it was good for them. I couldn't say, though. Too small to see. Although I do try, sometimes some of the ideas are too big.

[beanybeany.livejournal.com]

Stupid character limit...

-------------------------

I didn't really answer these questions to have an argument - I tried to answer them because they seem to be, at least from JJ, genuine questions. I like questions, I sill ask them myself, not so often, though. I think it's a bit silly when questions are veiled statement of 'your faith is crap and flawed and you're stupid for believing it and should stop'. Doesn't apply to you, I think, JJ, but it's why these questions make me feel all tired. Another reason, Christians ask similar questions, and it makes me think: "who teaches you about your faith?"

Therefore, if you'd like me to explain my ideas more, sure thing. But if my ideas are, by any chance, actually good and valid, at least in thier context, could we all agree to say 'fair enough'. I'll try to do the same.

On that note - positivness and negitivness, and the separation of the two. I think, people have, generally, accepted there will be times of sadness and happiness, things that we'll love and hate, I think they're all valid emotions, as emotions. But I think, perhaps, that suffering of a certain type can be reduced.

Anyways, all people like to reuce their suffering and increase their happiness. Whether they can or not, is a different question. And if it matters, really, is another :p But I'll leave those to the philosiphers. I have Japanese to learn

[confliction.livejournal.com]

I've been contemplating how to reply in a virtually 'neutral' manner. I've adopted a few methods in accomplishing this, and have also allowed some lee-way when you address me personally, which i take as a full invitation to give my explaination. Anything else is just my opinion, to be taken or leaven.

You have some good points. Although the 'negative' 'energy' i was referring to is that worrying itself, is a negative emotion... it doesn't make one feel good. Regardless of whether it's from compassion or just worrying for the sake of it. Although it would be interesting to investigate the second stage you have revealed... motives.

I'm gonna talk about the suffering thing and reducing it here, makes sense being here. Anywho... yes, people have accepted that there are the two opposites, and probably everything inbetween... i'm just saying that any hope of erradicating one or the other will result in a kind of... neutrality... kinda what a buddhist monk aims for. I agree that suffering can be reduced... and right now... in this world... i believe it to be vastly reduceable.

Where are these 'selfless' and 'selfish' 'ones'? I got lost. Interestingly... Sin = selfishness... and selfishness = evil... so Sin = Evil?

What do you see, that you don't want to see, that doesn't disappear?

I know they have been talked about before... for hours... years... centuries my friend... but i'm continuing the discussion... because i think i'm onto something... if not at least i'm keepin my mind active, lol.

Personally, I don't think 'God' exists outside of any 'creation'. 'God' is the 'creation'. The 'creation' is 'God'.

Maybe 'God' thought it best we exist than we did not? Worryingly... you "know most people think that about themselves"... they must regard themselves highly.

Personally, the answer as to whether those you love are second to 'God' is no... because they are 'God'. Becoming 'one' with 'God'... and accepting 'God'... is to acknowledge what is already there.

Why Free-will? Well, for me, this is a complex issue and would require me to deny things which you cannot deny because of your faith... so i'll respect that and shut up :)

I still do disagree with the sentiment that 'God' is outside of 'creation'. 'God' is forever, and so is 'creation', for me. Having already explained why i think 'God' isn't outside of 'creation', i'll shut up again.

I think Science is another kind of faith... it's also a double edged sword, especially when it's coupled with competitive capitalism. It's a faith in our ability to 'be' 'God'. I now find it mildly amusing when referrences are made about people 'playing God'. The ability to create life... and the ability to destroy it. I'm just babbling now... sorry.

The 'punishment' issue is highly charged... so i'll skip it too.

Worship... personally, being grateful for existing is enough for me. I can relate to the whole 'making life easier thing'... although personally, i try and shoulder the burden, take responsibility, and i want to try and make things better... even if it's just by writing a book... which i'm hopefully going to do.

I always try and be careful to not come across as being all 'you're stupid for believing that'... but funny thing is, from what i've figured out... it does seem as such... but i must continue to realise that we are all on our own spiritual paths for a reason. I'm just tryin to light some candles, as it were. As for 'who teaches you your faith'... personally... i happily reply 'i did'. Sure, i've collected various ideas from alsorts of places, but no one's told me what was right and what was wrong... and it's all in flux too... which is nice and fun :D

I'll agree to say fair enough :)

[beanybeany.livejournal.com]

It seems I glossed over punishment too... I wonder why? All I have is my opinion, and that we're no beining punished, as such. We ought to be going to the bad place, God gives us a chance not to. But anyways...

I know it does seem stupid. But that's okay, for 2 reasons. Firstly, it says in the Bible that for the learned of the world, the cross becomes stumbling block. Something like that. And, for a long time, everything that wasn't Christianity seemed stupid to me. But I recognise now, that people have reasons for believing what they believe, and even if it's irrational seeming to me, it is rational to them.

Well, worship is whatever you're grateful for, and saying thanks to God for it.

Tum-te-tum...

Double edged sword? That's one of those odd metaphors, which I'm sure got scewed along the way. I've been taught that it meant that it cut the person who held it. But that would be silly, unless they were really crap with swords. First off, it seems like saying it's a good weapon. Once again, my lack of living a few hundred years ago shows itself.

What causes you to say that creation is God and God is creation? It's an odd concept to me.

What I meant by most people thinking they are better off existing than not, is if you give people the chance to remove themselves from birth, stop the pregnancy or whatever, they wouldn't. It seems, therefore, that they think the world is better with them in it.

I wanted God to disapear for a period in my life. I tried, intellectually, to make Him go away. I was not willing to star activtly sinning, because a comment used in Christian circles about those who lost their faith was because they had started to sin. So if I was gonna not believe in Him, then I wasn't gonna have any arrogant Christians being able to say that to me. Turns out they were right in my case, but hey.

Sin is evil, evil is where God isn't... Something like that. Sin, I think, is normally associated with the actions of humans. The selfish one was worrying because it produced a desired chemical release in the person, while allowing them to stress at the other person. The selfless one was when the person worried because they actually cared about the person who was missing.

I don't see emotions are good or bad, really. I see them as... reactions to outside stimulus, and then the choices made based on those emotions are the good or bad thing.

The reason the whole debate is loaded for me is that if heaven is only full of goodness, and you can only know goodness through baddness and vice versa, then it all becomes nothing. But maybe the both continue to exist, just in different places. Like a pool of sulphur. But I'm still having problems with heaven and hell. But that is long and winding road of personal thought, which I would rather avoid at this moment, if you don't mind. Whole feeling crap enough as it is.

Yeah, I know you were saying worrying was a negative emotion. I was just sugesting that maybe it's not the emotion, but the motivation behind it that's negative or positive.

And thank you for saying I have some good points. It's a good place to start from. And a good place to end from.

I am enjoying this conversation, mentally streching, whilst being polite. Thanks for conducting yourself like that, even if it is just to make me feel better. Good karma, I guess, as you seem to sometimes like that idea.

about time :P

[confliction.livejournal.com]

Without further ado... my reply... lol.
Sorry about the delay, i guess it just wasn't time yet.

Before i begin, is it wrong for me to ask to come to see you, or is there only room for two?
I'll send something up with the guys... memory allowing.

Anywho...

After attempting to answer the 'punishment' thing, i gave up... lol... too hot a topic.

The bit about 'seeming stupid'... i don't understand what that relates to...

Worship... well in that case... I'm grateful for all kinds of creation, 'God' is 'Creation'... therefore... i'm grateful for/to 'God'. Hehe.

Yeah, you're right, that is an odd metaphor... I meant that with 'Competitive Capitalism', everything becomes driven by money rather than the love of science. Kinda thing.

What causes me to say 'God' is 'Creation'? That's a big one. Firstly, in order for things to make logical sense, 'God' cannot exist outside of 'Creation', for then the question needs to be asked "What/Who created 'God'?" Coupled with the 'trait' of 'God'... that of Omnipresence, it makes sense that 'God' is 'Creation'. That stops an infinite removal from the topic in question, and leaves us with the main question "Where did all this come from?" Personally, looking at how everything seems to work... it's always been here. It was funny seeing that show about String Theory last week... there was a bit about the scientists looking further into things because they couldn't accept the answer 'infinity' from their current knowledge. It's now actually Philosophy they are putting forward as 'science'. Anyways, other reasons include the fact that I'm trying to account for all the other 'Ascended Masters' of the world. Maths and other such patterns and things seem to also show a sign of coolness. I think 'God' can be found in life and yourself, and each other. All over the place.

"if you give people the chance to remove themselves from birth, stop the pregnancy or whatever, they wouldn't." You realise that people don't have that choice. That's one of the existential problems of our lives... none of us chose to be here. You couldn't give someone that choice either, if they could respond with an intelligable answer, they'd never have experienced life to tell you whether they want to live it. Life is however something animals in nature and us too, seem to fight to keep. Regardless of all of this though... 'God' 'deciding' it's better for us to exist, than to not exist, is tantamount to also denying us free-will. An interesting paradox whether people believe in 'God' or not. There is no choice. Odd, huh?
"It seems, therefore, that they think the world is better with them in it." Funnily... i disagree with this statement... most people seem to think life sucks... regardless of whether they're in it or not. People have no hope anymore... i find that disturbing... but who do we have to blame but ourselves? Although not directly responsible, 'we' still made this. 'We' have to change it.

They were right? Hmmm... how had you sinned, and how had that turned you away? As you know, i'm cautious of this 'Sin'. Obviously, being a believer, but in a different way, i believe it to be an act of futility to deny 'God'... as in my 'faith'... that'd mean denying 'Life' itself. I do however conceed that in their eyes, you may of turned away from 'their/your' 'God'... catch my drift?

Re: about time :P

[beanybeany.livejournal.com]

Yeah, sure come up, that'd be kew. It didn't really occur to me that you'd want to, but I'm glad you do ;)

How would you send something up with Matt, Kenny & Caz, you're all in different places?

I'm not in a philosophical mood at the moment, so I think I'll just say a little bit, and may add more. Possibly when I don't have exams glaring down my neck. Metaphorically glaring, actual exams glaring would be too scary.

Just occured to me that anyone could cease their existance at any point... Then maybe they do think the world is better with them in it? And most people you know think life sucks? I only know a couple like that, where'd you hang?

They were conversly right, sorry, should have been clearer - I carried on behaving in much the same way, and I despite the questioning I didn't loose faith. I think, if anything, it got stronger. The whole situation was a lot more complex than that... but it'd take a while to tell the whole story, and it's not too interesting.

As for Sin (see your other comment), I can't believe I actually wrote 'Sin is where God isn't'... I normally try to avoid cliches. But hey, lets go with that. It depends on the tone or voice, it's either a threat, or a warning. If it's a threat, then it's bad, but if it's a warning, then it's good. I think. Could be both? Trying to get into the head of God again, doesn't work too well.

Sad is undesirable, due to chemical releases in the brain, apparently, but I would think that being sad because someone close died, or something important broke, would be a good reaction to it. If they weren't sad, it'd probably be cause to be concerned.

Thank you for replying - I'll write something oin your other post, soon. The God thing is interesting, it got me thinking, and I'll write more about it, God willing, in a little bit. But that requires concentration, and that needs to be expended elsewhere - if that's ok?

And no, you haven't offended me ;) I don't often get offended by ideas or questions, just sometimes stuff that goes with them. I can't unreservedly say I'm sorry if I offended you - it wouldn't be true. I am sorry if I needlessly caused offense, though. Which is almost as good ;)

about time :P (part 2)

[confliction.livejournal.com]

"Sin is evil, evil is where God isn't..." Just for fun, i'm gonna run with this. Is it logical therefore for me to state that 'Sin is where God isn't' ? Therefore, the concept of Sin isn't of God. Following me? It is associated with the actions of humans, but it's a 'threat' concept. Don't do this, or burn, to be blunt. 'Karma' however, in it's basic form, seems to reflect the indifference of life and the flow of 'negative' and 'positive' energies. Using 'choice' we can control our 'negative' energies, and stop the flow while also being able to 'create' 'positive' energies. We certainly do have the power to pick up a flower, but is it best to leave it to grow?

Also thoughts from Philosophy of Law come in here. Like... all law, regardless of what gives it it's 'authority', whether 'God' or the 'State'... the real law is written, authorised and executed, by and upon, humans. We rule ourselves. In my recent Essay I put forward a new concept on which to base 'law'. All law being based on a 'higher' law... and to account for todays secular society... This 'Higher Law' should therefore be ascertained from reason and logic, i.e. "One entity shall not cause harm to another entity, through action or inaction, that affects that entity negatively, either physically, intellectually, or potentially." The reason i say 'entity' is to account for 'groups' and the such, not just individuals. You may notice that this 'law' is also the Golden Rule found in most religions.

You don't feel that being sad is negative then? From a human perspective? Objectively, it's merely the opposite of happy. Who is the tell which is the 'positive'?
I thank you for the 'motivation' thoughts... those too can be 'negative' or 'positive'. It's all rather complex, lol.

Sorry if i'm saying stuff that's getting to you, like, you said it's loaded and you'd rather avoid this topic. Can i just say, hopefully without causing too much harm, that i'll agree that there'll always be 'good' and 'bad'... or at least... opposites.

I wasn't conducting myself like that to make you feel better, that's just a happy result :), i'm just trying to do things right, i think i'm learning, especially after last time.
lol... yep... good karma ;)

Hope that was cool... sorry if I offended you.
Don't worry if you don't reply for ages... lol. Hope you do though... at least sometime :)